Questions with Rachel: Partnership and Finances in Marriage with Brian Zimmerman 011
What better way to celebrate our 14th wedding anniversary than having none other than Brian Zimmerman on Zimmerman Podcast!
This is basically the very first time Brian has ever entered the Zimmerman space with me, and I am so excited for y’all to get a sneak peek into who we really are and what our partnership is like.
We’re sharing our secret to growing up and growing old together, how we run our finances so they’re a means of connection in both the lean years and in the years of abundance, and why we hate the term “breadwinner.”
Let’s all say thanks to Brian for being willing to sit in my foam-padded closet while we recorded one of the most intimate and in-depth Zimmerman Podcast episodes yet. Brian, there’s no one else I’d rather do this life with. Happy Anniversary. Let’s dive in!
Brian is literally the Zimmerman behind Zimmerman. We wouldn’t have this without him for many reasons. He’s provided the name, for one, and he co-signed the loan that allowed me to transform from A Southern Tradition to Zimmerman Events (if you want to hear more about that, check out episode two) and he’s my #1 support system and has totally enabled me to do what I do with my business.
We’re going to talk finances today, because we’re at that time of year where both my team and my family hunker down on annual planning, but this is also technically a Questions with Rachel episode, so she asked us some questions from the greater Zimmerman audience as well!
Rachel: Tell us about when you and Jess first met.
We met at the University of Arkansas our freshman year. I was in a sorority, and he was in a fraternity, and we got matched up at a Greek sing. I always say, “it was love at first sight for me, but not for him.” I remember when me met so vividly. I turned around to meet him and expected to go back to the conversation I was having, but instead I gave him a sheepish hello because he was just beautiful! I didn’t know anything about Brian, other than his name, but I called my parents to tell them I was going to have to break up with my then boyfriend.
Everyone thought I was crazy, but I just knew in my gut that this person was supposed to be in my life, and I had to break up with my boyfriend, who was great, in order to be free to pursue him.
We all know I’m a “go after what I want kinda girl” (and Brian chimed in to let say that has not changed about me– it’s always been there) so after I broke up with boyfriend, I went to Brian’s dorm building that night. I only knew his first name but somehow talked the front desk person into letting me see the room list so I could casually walk by his room and hopefully start a conversation with him.
He was there studying and I started talking to him and dropped a hint about how hungry I was –he didn’t pick up on the hint and was totally oblivious to my attempts to flirt with him. So my friend and I went back to her room where I laid on the floor in dramatic fashion (which by the way this hadn’t changed either!) thinking …”what have I done with my life?”
I had just broken up with my boyfriend and Brian didn’t even seem interested. When all hope seemed lost, the phone rang. Apparently Brian’s neighbor overheard our conversation and clued him in on the fact that I was giving him the opportunity to hang with me. He figured out my friend’s room number and called to see if we were hungry and I made sure it was just him and me that went to Taco Bell that night, and we’ve been together ever since! If you want to learn more about how we met, make sure you’ve signed up to get updates on my memoir that’s coming out this spring.
Rachel: Brian, can you tell us if Jess has always had this powerful business-owner, CEO, educator and encourager inside of her?
We both agree that the powerful CEO didn’t come out until later. Brian didn’t skip his first class until he started dating me, he is a rule follower, he studied and had a 4.0. I hated classes… he described me as outgoing and fearless and fun to be around.
Rachel: You’re very different people but have super complimentary gifts, how does that come about in your daily life and working relationship – what’s the push and pull of that like?
As Brian mentioned, we sort of grew up together because we met when we were young. It’s been a learning experience the whole way, and when we get on the same page, we become a pretty good team because we complement each other well. We look at our strengths and try to “stay in our lanes” (I use that phrase everyday but it’s not his favorite!)
His number one strength is adaptability, which is so great for someone like me, because I know what I want (he said he would not at all describe me as flexible) and am determined to make it happened. I can be laser focused and to have someone who is adaptable and cool with that on my team is huge.
Brian is without a doubt 100% my biggest support and I don’t know if I could do this without him… if something did happen today… I think I would be able to continue to on because of the strength and support he’s given me, but I don’t think I could’ve gotten to this point without him. I feel really blessed and fortunate that he believes in me, not necessarily in my business or podcast or online education, but believes in me and he backs and supports me a thousand percent.
He has had unwavering support for me and although I do support Brian 100% in whatever he does, I’m supportive by asking questions and getting involved, whereas he just supports me. To be honest, I don’t know if I could have reciprocated the amount of support in the way he did it for me.
During the dark times of my business – like when we were on the brink of filing bankruptcy – which was all my doing, my mistakes – I don’t know that I would have co-signed a $100,000 loan with him if the roles were reversed. But he has always believed in me and supported me and there is something about having someone and knowing that no matter what. If I fail and fall on my face or become a huge success, he will be beside me and love me no matter what.
Brian shared about how we complement each other with parenting, too. He admits to being the softy, while I’m more future-thinking and involved in the planning, he is more in the now, the day-to-day, keeping things rolling. Even at work, my team is very day-to-day and I’m thinking ahead about the future and I’m the same at home.
We work hard on our marriage; we go to therapy every other week together and we each go alone every other week. Another thing that really works well in our marriage is that we are two independent people. We have the same values – that’s what connects us. We both came from good families, want the same things out of life at the end of the day: time with family, to travel the world, to serve others, to raise good kids, to make a difference.
We also have our own lives. He’s cool with me taking a trip on my own while he stays back with the kids, and he has a guy’s trip coming up where I’ll stay back with the kids. We each have things we like to do. We’re not codependent, but we choose to be around each other. We’ve had some hard years, but we know what it’s like when we’re good and on the same page. When we are we’re kind of unstoppable.
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Rachel: We both know that people often say, “Don’t get married too young because you’re going to change and grow apart.”
As you’ve grown up together and become better partners, what, would you say is the secret to going in the same direction as you grow up together and become different people. How do you maintain your individually and also grow, continuing to be partners?
We think if you get married young – you have to realize that you’re going to change and so is your spouse, and you’re not going to grow at the same time or the same rate.
For example, during Brian’s health issues, he was at his worst. During the first year of our marriage, I was. I barely got off the couch! We each had to pick up the slack for each other during those times.
It’s important to know this happens and try not to become resentful of one another. Therapy has helped us a lot, one of the things I love about therapy is its educating yourself about yourself. As a couple, we’re educating our relationship about our relationship. For us, a lot comes down to communication and our core values and trust. Before getting married, it’s important to know and be honest with each other about a few key things – finances, religion, how to spend holidays and how to raise your children, among others.
Brian agreed communication is key and is something he feels I’ve helped him with. We’ve learned to do this together, and as long as we know the trust and values are there – we know this is going to work. I like to say it’s about commitment (I say this about business, fitness, everything! and it’s also rings true about marriage and family. It’s about commitment, not about motivation or even romance. At the end of the day, we’re committed to building and living our lives together.
We’re both very aware that our kids are only with us, living in our home, for a blip in our life - if we live to be 80 then they’re only here for a quarter of our life. God willing, we have a lot more time in our life when it is or will be just Brian and I, and that’s why we know that our relationship is the core relationship.
We now have a weekly appointment with therapy and check in with one another, but even before we did that, we have always met weekly, even just for coffee to check-in with one another. And we also know we both need our own time to unwind.
Rachel: Brian, tell us about the days right before Jessica got the $100,000 loan that allowed her to transform her business? Were you stressed? Did you always feel like Jessica was going to figure it out, or were you sweating a little bit?
Brian knew what the numbers were, and I knew the only way out was to educate myself or go bankrupt. We both remember me saying “I know I can I do this” and he just knew I could – he believed me and believed in me. It was really simple for him. Although he admitted to Rachel that there was a little nervousness there, I never picked up on that. He was very steady and supportive, which was great.
Let me first shed a little light on Brian. He was a financial adviser for over a decade, he has an MBA in business and he’s honestly the smartest person I know. He also has what can’t be taught-- likability. He really is the total package.
When I brought up this idea of the loan to him, it was just a conversation, but he knew in his gut that I had the drive and determination to make it work, and here we are. He chose to invest in me and my business (our business- which we own 50/50). He just knew it was going to work – and now he gets to choose how he lives his life today because of the investment he made in me back then. He says I always keep things interesting and fun, even from the beginning. When we got married, he said to me on our wedding day, “One thing I know for sure, life won’t be boring with you.”
Rachel: I’ve heard you don’t love the term “breadwinner.” What is it that you don’t like about it?
We think it’s an archaic way of thinking. Due to some recent business publicity, I had a couple of women say to me that, “You must be the breadwinner” or “The man needs to feel like they’re the ones making the money,’’ almost as though I should maybe tone it down a little.
And I like to respond with, “We’re a little more progressive than that. We think of it as our money, and we’re both happy with our choices.”
He has supported me all these years. Brian summed it up – we know what’s working for us right now in this season, and we’re a team. If that makes other people uncomfortable, that’s about them.
Rachel: Brian, you’ve intuitively supported Jessica. What advice could you give to someone who is partnering with or supporting someone (family, a spouse or a good friend), especially when finances are involved? How do you come alongside someone you’re doing life with and show them you believe in them and are in it with them, even when it might be scary and big?
Brian shared that he is not just a “yes man” who supported me blindly. Nobody needs that. As the supportive one, it’s important to not be critical out of the gate, you’ve got to walk alongside the person you’re supporting, and also be the person to say, “Let’s think about that, let’s pray about that.”
For him, he was supportive because he had a gut feeling and faith – he knew I was going to be able to make it work.
As the person looking for the support, I want Brian to be supportive and realistic. There have been moments when he’s made an “old man comment” to me, saying something like “give it another once over,” when I’ve asked him about an idea that isn’t great or needs to be thought through better. When he’s supported me in the past, he had a gut feeling about me – he always knew that I was on a path to success. But I can’t expect him to 100% supportive of every idea that I have.
Again, we compliment each other well, I’m a “strike while the iron is hot” kind of person, and he’s prepared to think on stuff. But if my gut says “yes” all the way, he respects it and if his gut says “no” all the way, then I respect that.
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Rachel: Brian recently tested the waters into the corporate world again. Tell us about that, and how knowing your finances allowed you to move away from that when the time was right.
Brian admits there was a lot involved. At the time, we prayed, and it was a gut thing. When he first got very ill, he had started working for a new company. He couldn’t file short-term disability until he worked there for a year, and he was also new, so he didn’t have a relationship built up with this company.
It became clear to me that the writing was on the wall as he was getting sicker and couldn’t physically do his work, and he did end up losing that job. When he started getting better, we sat down for our annual planning meeting, and we dreamed about what we wanted our life to look like.
For both of us, it all came down to time. Brian also wanted to try flipping houses, which he had never done before. So for the last two-and-a-half years, he worked for himself flipping houses, and although he enjoyed it, he saw the market was changing and it was becoming tougher to find houses and make a profit. As an aside, he made more that year that his highest salary in a corporate job because he’s very smart and good at whatever he does.
This summer, he saw an opportunity for a corporate job that could lead to something he might really enjoy in the future.
To be honest, I hated the decision for him to go back to a corporate job, but I knew it was his decision to make, and I couldn’t influence it. He went for it, he enjoyed it, and it gave him a lot of clarity.
He realized a couple of things. First, that the flexibility he’s always had while working from home was necessary for our family, and that he enjoyed being on a small team and being around people during work. At the end of the summer, we looked at it logically. Our time, the pay, the schedule-- and we realized that this job just didn’t make sense for this season of our lives.
It was good for him to be able to leave on his own terms and actually choose the life we have. There was a lot of freedom in that. We’re on the same page now, and we both agree that process has been great for our marriage. Right now he manages a lot for our family’s daily lives and loves it.
Rachel: Getting into the nuts and bolts of your finances, how do you split up your bank account? How do you run the account of a thriving business alongside of your personal accounts? How do you keep things separate and consistent and clear?
When we got engaged, I knew a major reason why people get divorced is because of finances. I wanted to do everything we could to never argue about that, and I wanted to have a system in place so we could take that big worry out of the equation. I also didn’t want to have to ask for permission to buy things. I had friends who would hide purchases from their husbands and I didn’t want that for our marriage.
We read Automatic Millionaire by David Bach together and one of the things that stuck out to me was a suggestion that whoever is the “breadwinner” right now might not always be. The roles could change.
Brian financially supported us for eleven out of the fourteen years we’ve been married. When I first read the book, I honestly never thought that might change, but that idea stuck with me and was, I thought, a valuable insight. We also learned to view the role of working within the home as a job, as real work.
At the very beginning of our marriage, we made a list of everything it takes to run our new family together. We wrote down all the things: laundry, meals, dishes, paying bills, etc., and we circled which ones each of us want to take care of, to help avoid resentment. This list still serves us, and we know our roles and we’ve chosen them and we were both contributing to our life together, so we both reap the reward of our finances.
As far as our financial breakdown, to Brian’s credit and David Bach’s book’s, we started out paying ourselves first, into our retirement. We also had everything automated, whether that’s bills or a monthly subscription for paper towels.
Then with the rest of our money, we take 70% of that and put that into a joint account that pays for anything we do together (our mortgage payment, utilities, groceries, vacations together, eating out together). We also each have our own bank account. We don’t need to see each other’s bank accounts, we trust each other. With the remaining 30% of our combined income, we put 15% into his account and 15% into mine.
This method, which we still use today, takes out the frustration of finances…so when he buys new golf clubs, I’m genuinely happy for him because he saved up for it and that’s what his account is for. It takes away the tension with purchases. When I started bringing in income, the percentages stayed the same. It was a good way to start our marriage and it has worked for us.
I actually teach about personal finances with the exact method we use every year in my course Know Your Numbers. Brian keeps up with our personal investments and I keep up with the business investments. We take two full days in November to figure out a plan and budget for the following year. We’re doing it now for 2020, and we keep all this information and we can see what we’ve done and spent, and there is so much freedom when we have a plan and know our numbers.
You can make your dreams a reality if you sit down and plan it out. I’m excited to share what we do with others what we do in my course, because there has been a lot of freedom for us.
Rachel: Brian Zimmerman, if you had Oprah’s money and had to spend it on yourself, what would you buy?
Brian shared that he’d spend his Oprah money on a crazy amazing home gym. Like, Mark Wahlberg style gym. He’d also hire a personal chef that would grocery shop for us as well. The chef would make all the good healthy stuff, and we would have no excuse but to eat healthy, amazing food!
Brian said that he’s been blessed to get his health back, and he wants to keep it.
I couldn’t imagine anyone else I’d rather build and share this life with. It was so fun to have Brian join me in this episode of Questions with Rachel and to share a little bit about our life, marriage and finances. We’ll have to have him on again to discuss even more.
That's the end of this segment of Questions with Rachel!
If you have a question you'd like me to answer on this segment, send your question to Rachel through zimmermanpodcast.com/ask!
Show notes & links
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